Famed liberal law professor Alan Dershowitz told Fox and Friends this morning that as far as the President is concerned, the Mueller investigation is over:
“Mueller will do anything to try to get people to sing or perhaps even to compose and that cooperation is now off the table.
It was on the table early on in the investigation.
And then it became clear to the Trump defense team that cooperation was getting them nowhere.
There were determined to get Trump by squeezing all the people around him.
So I think the cards that were shown yesterday were that this investigation as far as Trump is concerned is over unless they try to subpoena him and then we have a constitutional conflict because Trump asserts Article 2, and other constitutional rights.
We go to court and we don’t have a Mueller report for a long, long time.”
Watch the whole thing:
Partial transcript:
HEMMER: “Alan Dershowitz wrote the book the case against impeaching Trump. Good to have you back. Good morning to you. Over my dead body. I think it was the quote of the weekend pretty much tells us it is not going to happen, would you agree?”
DERSHOWITZ: “Oh, yeah, I think every reasonable defense attorney would give the same advice. We remember very carefully the Martha Stewart case where they got her for talking to the F.B.I. And then Flynn. Look, the Flynn case is fascinating. I hope the judge understands when he has the case tomorrow that Flynn did not commit a crime by lying because the lie has to be material to the investigation. And if the F.B.I. Already new the answer to the question and only asked him the question in order to give him an opportunity to lie, his answer even if false, was not material to the investigation. Lying to the F.B.I. Is not a crime.”
HEMMER: “Why not just tell the truth especially if everybody knew what was going on? Quickly on Giuliani. You saw him on fox with Chris Wallace. You saw him on ABC with Stephanopoulos. Did he show any cards in either of those interviews do you think?”
DERSHOWITZ: “I think he has made it very clear the president is finished cooperating. He understands it’s an adversarial hearing. Mueller will do anything to try to get people to sing or perhaps even to compose and that cooperation is now off the table. It was on the table early on in the investigation. And then it became clear to the Trump defense team that cooperation was getting them nowhere. There were determined to get Trump by squeezing all the people around him. So I think the cards that were shown yesterday were that this investigation as far as Trump is concerned in over unless they try to subpoena him and then we have a constitutional conflict because Trump asserts Article 2, and other constitutional rights. We go to court and we don’t have a Mueller report for a long, long time. I suspect we’re on the way to the Mueller report but find no crimes but political sins, not the proper function of a special counsel. The inquisition found sins but prosecutors are only supposed to find crimes.”
HEMMER: “What do we need to understand about this sentencing tomorrow with Flynn?”
DERSHOWITZ: “Two things. Number one, I think the judge has the authority to throw out the plea if he believes the plea was not to a crime. I have think he should find as a matter of law that when you tell an untruth to the FBI about a matter that they already know the truth about, they already know the answer. When the only purpose of the question is to get you to lie, that’s not a crime. That’s not a material misstatement. If he doesn’t throw it out and it would take a lot of courage to throw it out, I think we’re seeing probably a probationary sentence. Whether we see a pardon or commutation afterward is a political issue I’m not familiar with.”
HEMMER: “Late on Friday a lot of folks running around that afternoon Mueller came out with a statement saying with regard to these charges of entrapment a lot of pieces written last week that Flynn was entrapped in the interview. Special counsel felt compelled to say it was not entrapment. We were not there to set you up. How did that strike you?”
DERSHOWITZ: “Well, I don’t think that’s right. I think a lot of people misinterpreting the issue. The question as Mueller put it was did he lie or was he treated unfacial?— unfairly. The both is true. He knew there were transcripts. But was he treated unfairly? The answer is yes. Told not to have a lawyer present. Made to relax. Made to feel it was just an opportunity to schmooze with some F.B.I. Buddies and they spring the trap on him. They asked him a question to which they already knew the answer not for purposes of learning the truth, they knew the truth, but for purposes of giving him an opportunity to lie. The question for the American public is do we want the F.B.I. To be springing morality tests on our citizens, criminal morality tests, giving them the opportunity to lie and giving them the opportunity to tell the truth? That’s not a proper function of law enforcement. I hope the judge would see that and say something about it.”
HEMMER: “The question whether or not he talked to the Russian within his role he would have had authority to do that, correct? Had they asked the question —“
DERSHOWITZ: “No question what he did was legal.”
HEMMER: “So why didn’t he tell the truth bit?”
DERSHOWITZ: “You’re right, he should have told the truth. It leads to the possibility, the possibility that maybe he really was not lying. That’s what the two F.B.I. Agents concluded. Maybe he just momentarily forgot. He didn’t seem to be lying. No motive to lie. No reason to lie. He is an intelligent guy. Maybe he didn’t lie. Maybe he told an untruth which he believed was true at the time. I’m not saying that’s the case but that should be considered.”
HEMMER: “Will we get that answer tomorrow when Flynn appears?”
DERSHOWITZ: “I think we’ll get some answers tomorrow. We won’t be able to probe into his mind tomorrow and never know why a man with his background and intelligence who knew the FBI had the information, why he would not just say I did it, I’m proud of it. It was within my authority. Next question.”
HEMMER: “Unless he speaks tomorrow we’ll wait on that. Alan Dershowitz, thank you for being with us today.”
